时间
北京时间2006年2月20日（周一）上午10:00-12:00
演讲人
温伯格(Gerald Weinberg)（1933-2018）。对软件业影响巨大的几个人之一。
声音记录
网盘下载(40M)：http://pan.baidu.com/share/link?shareid=71197&uk=1795750932
UMLChina早期的很多专家讲座是通过电话举行，所以音质和后来的讲座相比稍差。
聊天记录
(10:03:45)[*umlchina_seminar]与所有人说:[*JerryWeinberg] 进来了
(10:03:56)[*umlchina_seminar]与所有人说:大家欢迎
(10:04:15)*cdzwm与[*umlchina_seminar]说:大师，你们好。
(10:04:30)*eastsurfer与所有人说:welcome you,mr weinberg:)
(10:04:35)*umlchina2与所有人说:Professor Weinberg arrives！请大家欢迎
(10:04:50)feitianwu与所有人说:welcome
(10:04:54)*Waltzor与所有人说:welcome
(10:04:55)wangchunjie2006与所有人说:到了，有声音了
(10:04:58)wangchunjie2006与所有人说:？
(10:04:59)gabor与所有人说:welcome！
(10:05:05)[*umlchina_seminar]与所有人说:要是听不见声音，请手工安装插件，http://www.bliao.com/help/Bluesky.exe
(10:05:10)*iAmSinboy与所有人说:welcome ,Mr weinberg
(10:05:54)*fbbobo与所有人说:request
(10:05:57)caihaihong与所有人说:requirement
(10:06:00)*Waltzor与所有人说:请问幻灯呢？
(10:06:04)*fbbobo与所有人说:requestment
(10:06:37)*fbbobo与所有人说:requirement
(10:06:41)wangchunjie2006与所有人说:听到声音了
(10:07:35)*umlchina2与所有人说:方帅 How to capture requirement
(10:07:43)wangchunjie2006与所有人说:有翻译不？
(10:07:56)wangchunjie2006与所有人说:没有翻译
(10:08:42)wangchunjie2006与所有人说:声音不清晰，本人口语水平不高。听不懂
(10:08:48)wangchunjie2006与所有人说:如果没有翻译我就撤了
(10:09:34)wangchunjie2006与所有人说:大家好
(10:10:01)wangchunjie2006与所有人说:？？
(10:10:36)wangchunjie2006与所有人说:又没声音了
(10:10:37)*eastsurfer与所有人说:what's wrong?
(10:10:41)*fbbobo与所有人说:?
(10:10:44)nlstone与所有人说:?
(10:10:56)wangchunjie2006与所有人说:这次组织失败
(10:11:06)[*umlchina_seminar]与所有人说:稍等一下
(10:11:29)*cdzwm与所有人说:如果有哪位大侠能将大师的话翻译一下就好了。
(10:11:41)wangchunjie2006与所有人说:是啊，真是痛苦死了
(10:12:05)tyinpo与所有人说:我这里挺好的，声音一直比较稳定啊
(10:12:13)wangchunjie2006与所有人说:呵呵
(10:12:17)wangchunjie2006与所有人说:我走了，88
(10:12:42)wangchunjie2006与所有人说:各位组织者也挺辛苦的，对于刚才我说的组织失败我道歉
(10:13:10)[*umlchina_seminar]与wangchunjie2006说:
(10:14:36)*umlchina2与所有人说:Question2: 钟平声 How to understand the client's requirement exactly?
(10:15:03)*cdzwm与所有人说:建议此次讲座结束后，有人能将大师的讲话整理一下，发表出来，供各位有志于软件事业的同仁参考。
(10:15:04)nlstone与所有人说:ok
(10:15:41)*umlchina2与所有人说:大家需要提问，让大师多说话，才能翻译出好的内容给大家呀
(10:17:26)nlstone与所有人说:对一个轻量级的项目而言,如何对需求进行管理? 换言之,最简单有效的需求管理工具/方法/流程是怎么样的?
(10:19:27)tyinpo与所有人说:在需求分析阶段：
(10:19:33)tyinpo与所有人说:(1)从软工的角度来看，需求定义到哪种层次才算是可行的?评价标准通常有哪些?
(10:19:37)tyinpo与所有人说:(2)需求如何分类?这些分类对于需求的实现以及其后的变更控制相关性如何?
(10:19:46)tyinpo与所有人说:Within the phase of requirements analysis:
(10:20:05)tyinpo与所有人说:- To what degree are the requirements so-called clearly defined?
(10:20:10)tyinpo与所有人说:By what we think the model and documents are enough?
(10:20:28)tyinpo与所有人说:- How to classify the pre-defined requirements
(10:20:32)tyinpo与所有人说:and how is this classification relevant to requirements change control hereafter?
(10:22:35)caihaihong与所有人说:如果是用纸制管理，那需求变更怎么办？
(10:24:11)nlstone与所有人说:ok, i see
(10:24:36)tyinpo与所有人说:OK
(10:26:49)*umlchina2与所有人说:现在在回答tyinpo的问题
(10:27:20)xuehu与所有人说:Could you please compare XP and UP in terms of requirement management?
(10:27:37)pshzhong_393与[*umlchina_seminar]说:没有视频吗
(10:28:03)*umlchina2与所有人说:Caihaihong: If mgmt in hardcopy, how to deal with the requirement change?
(10:28:07)*changde2与所有人说:没有ppt的，是不是？
(10:28:37)tyinpo与所有人说:In short, it is decided by customers' need. Right?
(10:30:45)tyinpo与所有人说:Are there so-called best practise of Mr. Weinborg with requirements classification?
(10:32:29)浪潮威子_244与所有人说:听不见
(10:34:31)[*umlchina_seminar]与*umlchina2说:要是听不见声音，请手工安装插件，http://www.bliao.com/help/Bluesky.exe
(10:35:16)tyinpo与[*umlchina_seminar]说:诶，不好意思，老板找，必须下了，晚点看你们整理的纪要了，如果有的话，谢谢
(10:35:46)*umlchina2与所有人说:Now Question from Caihaihong
(10:36:31)gabor_564与所有人说:unified process
(10:36:44)*umlchina2与所有人说:xuehu与所有人说:Could you please compare XP and UP in terms of requirement management?
(10:38:27)xuehu与所有人说:Yes, that answers it. Thanks a lot.
(10:39:12)*umlchina2与所有人说:张雪虎 How do you see the future for the poor (mostly overworked) software developers in china?
(10:39:45)*jacobchin与所有人说:对于像Yahoo，Google这样的ICP,线上的功能一般都需要随时更新。如果每次更新作为一个项目的话，项目周期一般小于2周。这样的项目如何做需求评审？
(10:42:47)nlstone与所有人说:大家还能听到吗? 我好像断了
(10:43:35)[*umlchina_seminar]与*umlchina2说:能
(10:44:17)*umlchina2与*jacobchin说:For ICP like Yahoo，Google, their online function needs to be updated frequently.
(10:44:44)*umlchina2与*jacobchin说:If we put each updateq as a project, the cycle will be about 2 weeks.
(10:44:57)*changde2与所有人说:How we can find requirement if our user can't tell us? Generally speaking, if we divide software
(10:45:04)*umlchina2与*jacobchin说:How we review the requirement for this kind of projects?
(10:45:49)*changde2与所有人说:into two type: automation and future software. Automation means we just try to automate all manual
(10:46:24)*bubblebaby与所有人说:I have no earphone.is the talking going on?
(10:46:43)*changde2与所有人说:work into system. This kind of software may meet current user requirement but may out-of-date soon.
(10:47:23)*changde2与所有人说:Future software means we just see the business opportunity and try to pre-prepare the software
(10:47:37)*changde2与所有人说:then, how we can find those requirements?
(10:49:15)*fbbobo与所有人说:how to deal with requrement by means of System Science?
(10:49:40)*umlchina2与所有人说:Now is the question fm *jacobchin
(10:50:02)*umlchina2与所有人说:线上的功能一般都需要随时更新。如果每次更新作为一个项目的话，项目周期一般小于2周。这样的项目如何做需求评审？
(10:53:47)*umlchina2与所有人说:now the question from )*changde2
(10:54:21)*rainman1970与所有人说:Is the voice or video available?
(10:54:56)*umlchina2与*rainman1970说:audio is open now, no video
(10:55:23)pocean与所有人说:no slide download before this presen?
(10:55:59)*changde2与所有人说:how to open audio?
(10:56:11)[*umlchina_seminar]与*umlchina2说:要是听不见声音，请手工安装插件，http://www.bliao.com/help/Bluesky.exe
(10:56:28)*umlchina2与*rainman1970说:now answer the question:*fbbobo how to deal with requrement by means of System Science(thinking)
(10:57:29)nlstone与所有人说:System Science(thinking)? 中文是?
(10:58:04)*changde2与所有人说:how to be a quolified requirement analyst? which skills must have?
(10:58:07)*umlchina2与所有人说:系统思想（Weinberg的一本书）
(10:58:22)nlstone与所有人说:oh,3ks
(11:00:50)*umlchina2与所有人说:how to be a qualified requirement analyst（engineer)? which skills must have?
(11:02:08)pocean与所有人说:i've read the book"Exploring Requirements",the method is very useful
(11:02:11)pocean与所有人说:, is there some tools support it
(11:02:43)hong_sea与所有人说:系统思想 is a good book!
(11:02:58)nlstone与所有人说:问题:在人手不够,没有需求工程师的情况下,由哪些角色来完成需求比较恰当?
(11:04:38)*umlchina2与所有人说:辛卫金 How to foresee the requirement change?
(11:10:32)*rainman1970与所有人说:What if my project Manager does not know anything about technical stuff?
(11:11:43)bj_luoyg冲所有人叫:How to get the full infomation of the requirement? Can you detailed describe the model or flow?
(11:12:15)*umlchina2与所有人说:now a short break for 3 minutes
(11:13:30)citizen2yy与所有人说:Thank Jerry.
(11:13:47)bj_luoyg冲所有人叫:can you give us a detailed example(telecom field is better)
(11:14:54)[*umlchina_seminar]与*umlchina2说:大家尽管提问题
(11:15:17)flylifei与所有人说:the meeting is very important in exploring requirements,then how can we make it beter?
(11:15:31)*changde2与所有人说:结束以后会不会有整理的东西发布?
(11:15:55)tangkd与所有人说:Does this meeting have vision
(11:16:04)flylifei与所有人说:what should we do before meeting,in and later meeting
(11:16:54)*umlchina2与pocean说:What kind of tools are you looking for ?
(11:16:55)citizen2yy与flylifei说:let it be more free, more safe, and more iterative
(11:18:22)*umlchina2与所有人说:14）nlstone: When with shortage of labour resources, for example if there is no requirement
(11:18:34)*umlchina2与所有人说:engineer, who will do the job of requirement?
(11:18:38)[*umlchina_seminar]与所有人说:citizen2yy是《探索需求》的译者，章柏幸
(11:19:04)flylifei与citizen2yy说:thanks
(11:20:20)flylifei与citizen2yy说:we shuold tace the quetions that hadn't been soved in meeting ,what shuold we do?
(11:21:07)citizen2yy与flylifei说:我的理解，要让参与者放松，展现出各种形式的心理，比如高尚的，丑陋的（自由），并且给他们勇气说出来（安全）。说出来之后还要允许修改和反悔（迭代）
(11:22:25)flylifei与citizen2yy说:那我们怎么样更好的跟踪问题，一个会议持续多久比较合适？
(11:22:31)citizen2yy与flylifei说:没有标准。
(11:22:44)flylifei与citizen2yy说:比较好的做法那？
(11:22:59)citizen2yy与flylifei说:有时候会议仅仅是确定下个会议的参与者。
(11:23:08)caihaihong与所有人说:有些客户有排斥心理，不愿意说，怎么引导？
(11:23:37)citizen2yy与flylifei说:作为 需求探索者，我们首先必须做客户的朋友。
(11:23:51)flylifei与citizen2yy说:有些时候设计人员觉得难以实现，也不愿意深入，有什么好的办法吗？
(11:23:55)sunrise_yeh与所有人说:In our Corp. CMM define the 3 levels requirement.
(11:24:23)sunrise_yeh与所有人说:: Business Requirement, System Requirement and Software Requirement.
(11:24:43)*umlchina2与所有人说:now answer the question from bj_luoyg
(11:25:08)citizen2yy与flylifei说:我的理解，需求和设计是分不开的。
系统：主麦克风被您交给*umlchina2。
(11:25:29)sunrise_yeh与所有人说:We are too boring to write so many documents, 你怎么看待这种多层需求问题？需要这么多层次吗？
(11:25:32)citizen2yy与flylifei说:另一方面，我们还要把设计人员看做需求工作的客户
(11:25:49)flylifei与citizen2yy说:good idea
(11:26:56)[*umlchina_seminar]与所有人说:大家多问问题
(11:26:57)citizen2yy与flylifei说:站在一个第三方的角度，绘制一幅画，这幅画里面可以表现出他需要的和他所付出之间的关系。
(11:26:59)*umlchina2与所有人说:Now anwer the question fm sunrise_yeh
(11:27:56)citizen2yy与flylifei说:类似于《与熊共舞》里面的风险图。
(11:29:09)citizen2yy与flylifei说:我们要做的，教会客户画图的方法，要他自己去画图，然后通过几个问题，问他的结论。再把他的结论画到我们的图里面。
(11:29:19)citizen2yy与flylifei说:再进行迭代。
(11:30:12)flylifei与citizen2yy说:如果做需求分析的人对那领域也不是很了解呢？
(11:30:48)citizen2yy与flylifei说:去了解。否则就说服自己，要么草率地去做，要不放弃。
(11:30:51)citizen2yy与flylifei说:呵呵。
(11:31:02)citizen2yy与flylifei说:有时候我们也不能对自己太认真。
(11:31:07)*umlchina2与pocean说:有关你的问题，Weinberg希望知道你想像中的工具是什么样的。
(11:31:31)citizen2yy与flylifei说:比如，你自己也是 需求工作的客户。
(11:31:34)flylifei与citizen2yy说:了解是一定的，但是那样就很难提探索了
(11:32:10)citizen2yy与flylifei说:你自己对自己的需求工作的目标，也是需要探索的。
(11:32:13)*umlchina2与所有人说:俞瑜杰 How to become a leader?
(11:32:39)*umlchina2与所有人说:Question now：Should a technical leader be firstly technically outstanding?
(11:34:19)*changde2与所有人说:How to balance the documentation work？Not detail enough, then useless, too much detail, then higher
(11:34:27)*changde2与所有人说:maintenance cost
(11:35:55)*changde2与所有人说:and you know, people like to create new things, but lazy to maintain
(11:37:21)[*umlchina_seminar]与所有人说:大家多问问题啊
(11:37:24)*rainman1970与所有人说:How to extract requirement when re-factoring an existing product which do not have a good reqt doc?
(11:37:34)[*umlchina_seminar]与所有人说:自己工作中的困惑
(11:39:24)pocean与所有人说:it's over?
(11:39:32)*umlchina2与pocean说:notyet
(11:39:46)pocean与所有人说:why no voice?
(11:39:59)*umlchina2与pocean说:something wrong at your side.
(11:39:59)[*umlchina_seminar]与所有人说:要是听不见声音，请手工安装插件，http://www.bliao.com/help/Bluesky.exe
(11:40:04)sunrise_yeh与pocean说:可能你机子的问题
(11:41:40)pocean与所有人说:可是刚才有啊？
(11:41:59)nlstone与pocean说:关闭语音，重开
(11:42:15)pocean与nlstone说:it's ok，thank you！
(11:42:34)tangkd与所有人说:How to balance the requirement from serval stakeholders in common cause?
(11:46:45)*umlchina2与所有人说:石红生 How to organize and manage the testing team to perform effectiveness?
(11:48:43)*umlchina2与所有人说:戴晅 How could a software developer turn to be a consultant?
(11:48:44)*changde2与所有人说:what's different emphasis of requirement in each software developing stage?
(11:49:00)*umlchina2与所有人说:Is 戴晅 here?
(11:51:44)*umlchina2与所有人说:Prefessor, would you please introduce your new book "Fieldstone Method"
(11:51:45)tangkd与所有人说:In usually,we must deliver two various requirements to customer and developer
(11:52:10)tangkd与所有人说:then what kind document will be understood by customer and developer
(11:54:10)*changde2与所有人说:what kind of document will you use to confirm requirement with customer?
(11:54:33)*changde2与所有人说:Is it different document from which you pass requirement to developers?
(11:55:39)tangkd与所有人说:to developer ,we use uml ,and to customer,we use work flow to describe
(11:56:51)*changde2与所有人说:but work flow is very general, without detailed information
(11:57:55)*changde2与所有人说:yes, that's what we do now
(11:58:35)*changde2与所有人说:but the problem is when we show mockup screens to customer, they focus to those fields, lables..
(11:58:56)*changde2与所有人说:sometimes we think the mockup screens also mislead our customers
(12:00:59)*umlchina2与所有人说:now about: "Fieldstone Method"
(12:03:08)tangkd与*changde2说:could you tell me,what is mockup screens
(12:03:21)[*umlchina_seminar]与*umlchina2说:谢谢大家的提问
(12:03:41)sunrise_yeh与所有人说:Is the "Fieldstone Method" is a new book?
(12:03:54)[*umlchina_seminar]与*umlchina2说:讲座到此结束
(12:04:12)shiningxyy与所有人说:baibai
(12:04:23)nlstone与所有人说:ok,thank 温伯格¨china_*
(12:04:26)*umlchina2与所有人说:是的，新书，还没有中文版
(12:04:30)tangkd与*changde2说:It's very wonderful,I hope it isn't last,thanks
(12:04:38)shiningxyy与所有人说:thanks. jerry.
(12:04:49)sunrise_yeh与所有人说:ok, thank u.
(12:04:54)[*umlchina_seminar]与*umlchina2说:2006年3月2日（周四）上午10:00-12:00 David S. Frankel--"模型驱动业务流程平台"讲座
(12:05:05)*changde2与tangkd说:something like prototype
(12:05:22)*changde2与tangkd说:worry for my absent minded
(12:05:25)tangkd与*changde2说:yeah,thank you
(12:05:39)*umlchina2与所有人说:谢谢大家！讲座录音会稍后提供下载。
(12:05:41)*changde2与tangkd说:假页面
(12:05:52)*changde2与tangkd说:给用户一个概念，大概会是什么样的
(12:06:03)tangkd与*changde2说:IC,thank you
(12:06:09)*changde2与tangkd说:with pleasuer
(12:06:12)*changde2与tangkd说:pleasure
(12:06:25)tangkd与*changde2说:where are you from?
(12:06:28)nlstone与所有人说:good i will continue joining in this kind of meeting!
(12:07:13)nlstone与所有人说:bye everybody see u!
(12:08:15)*changde2与tangkd说:shanghai
